Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. Beginning in 2010, all 2500 and 3500 Express / Savana with a 4.8L or 6.0L engine used the 6L90 transmission. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. full. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? All rights reserved. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Shift the transmission to Neutral. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. You are browsing camaro6. 2nazty New Member. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). That is just the beginning. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. Finally I am looking for a Chevrolet Caprice PPV to build into a fun road trip sedan for the family with either a LS3 or L92 engine block, stock LSA crank, rods, pistons, ARP hardware through out with CNC LS3/L92 heads and a pair of turbos with a goal of 750-950 horsepower at the wheels. to 885 ft. Sixth 1.28 But in order to make this work properly, they began by making the overall First gear ratio deeper. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. Gears Magazine All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. How do Sonnax components prevent the failure that plagues these units? Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? $ 439.00 Select options. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. General 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. Before we get started, lets cover the basics. Im with you on AFM is crap. (incl. Subscribe Now Required fields are marked *. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. The location of the warmer and the routing of the hoses can vary widely. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. A rebuilt 10L80 will only have a certain number of components that get replaced. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Fourth 1.80 When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Homepage: Garage: Wiki: Register: Community: Calendar: Today's Posts: Search: #Camaro6 . Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . Eighth 0.85 The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. Wait 1 second. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. But it does take a bit of experience to not damage anything on the valve body or inside the . Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. TIPM Problems! What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a36 spline. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Pre-Owned. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. First, check for updated programming for the TCM strategy. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. Always appreciate the great exchanges. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. GM states, ". It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. It all comes down to the extra rigidity and flatness of the surfaces. Will this hurt the trani? Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. 10R80 transmission swap? Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. Thread starter 2nazty; Start date Nov 26, 2018; Nov 26, 2018 #1 2. It does not have a direct 1:1 ratio like the 4L80E and 4L60E, which is worth noting. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. It looks nearly identical to the 6L90. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? Remember, this is just a theory. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. Gm hydro 10 speed. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. Members Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Spin losses (i.e. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. There are five main inputs the vehicle uses for transmission shift strategy, they are: The Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle must be performed after any of the following procedures are performed: Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle on a level road surface as follows: After the final step, place the vehicle in park and cycle the ignition key off. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. Note, some customers may complain of a converter type whine noise coming from the transmission. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. var d=new Date(); After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. Thats pretty much all thats to it. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. Account. Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! Reverse 4.87. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? Thats a great question. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. What came first: the chicken or the egg? The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? Production Began 2017 A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain Its good for a 12.69 @ 111 mph in cool dry weather.I go down the track with the lock up switch off. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Legal/Privacy. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Your email address will not be published. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines.
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